Timothy Jay Schwab who is The God Culture has finally responded to my articles about Fernando Pinto. If you recall Fernando Pinto was shipwrecked in the Lequios Islands. He places those islands at "nine and twenty degrees" which means 29 degrees. Tim, instead of citing Pinto, decided to cite J.G. Cheock who says Pinto charted the Lequios Islands at 9N20 which would place them in the Philippines. Let's take a look at Tim's counterarguments.
 |
| https://thegodculture.org/understanding-pinto-s-coordinates-nine-and-twenty-degrees/ |
In The Search for King Solomon’s Treasure, Timothy and Anna Schwab cite the work of J.G. Cheock only once, in a single sentence, and they do so with full transparency—providing both source and original quotation in their accompanying Sourcebook, a level of disclosure far exceeding typical academic practice. Nowhere in the book do they claim to quote Pinto directly in that instance, and the source is provided. However, upon verification, Pinto’s primary source confirmed the accuracy of Cheock’s summary. The authors faithfully represented the secondary source and, after reading the primary, did so with full contextual understanding and integrity. Yes, they read the source – secondary and primary.
Recently, a blogger falsely accused them of “lying” despite their accurate citation and representation. Such a charge not only misrepresents the facts but reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of both scholarly standards and the historical texts themselves. Moreover, the blogger has made public his intent to defame Timothy Jay Schwab, an action which has been reported for investigation.
This rebuttal is not written in response to the defamatory blogger’s accusations directly—for those hold no academic merit. Rather, it serves to aid honest scholars who may also struggle with interpreting older texts or 16th-century navigation references. Many of these misunderstandings stem from enduring colonial biases embedded in historiography, geography, and textual interpretation. We are living in a time when these inherited frameworks are being challenged and unraveled. Their dominance is not eternal—truth is rising to replace them.
In the introduction Tim says he has read both the primary and secondary sources, that is Cheock and Pinto, and they both say the same thing. He also says he is not writing in response to me but to correct scholars. As if scholars need correction from magazine publisher and non-expert Timothy Jay Schwab!
The blogger claims this is 29°, and at face value in modern English that seems plausible. Indeed, there are scholars who pretend to read this without actually reading the full context ,in which that interpretation is impossible. However, when carefully read in 16th-century English, the phrase:
“scituated in nine and twenty degrees”…could also be read to mean "between 9 and 20 degrees"—not 29°. This is evident in period navigational and geographic language. This is why when The God Culture reviewed this secondary source with an accurate reading of the primary source, it was validated honestly and accurately. As we wanted to shout out with a plug to a local Filipino author, we maintained the secondary source, because it remained accurate. Here's why the blogger's reading is flawed:
"Nine and twenty degrees" is not the same as "twenty-nine degrees" (which would have to pass the test of the full context he does not bother with. Also, even if it is 29 degrees definitively, this is no issue. In that time, a giant island of the Philippines was illustrated on Portuguese maps and their extended paradigm between 7 and 30 degrees (list below). That giant island is Luzon and nothing else, and that still fits this context in every way. By the same sentence from Pinto, dimensions qualify such a large island, where Ryukyu or even Taiwan are far too small. See maps below).
Scituated in nine and twenty suggests a range, much like “between” or “from...to”.
✅ Correct Historical Reading:
The Lequios are described as situated between 9° and 20° latitude (9N20 of Cheock's accurate reflection)—matching the central Philippines, especially Luzon to Visayas—not Ryukyu, which lies mostly above 24°, also fitting nothing in the rest of the passage the blogger failed to read as do many academics, in Colonial bias. This is further vetted by the rest of the data Pinto mentioned that the blogger ignores.
In adding the understanding of Magellan and Columbus, we firmly know this is the accurate way to read this. In his notes, Magellan identified the Lequios Islands as the Philippines equated to Ophir and Tarshish, as did Pigafetta's Journal. Columbus created at least 2 maps with his brother in their own admission and these both identify the region of the Philippines as this ancient land of renown.
This is the most important counterargument Tim has. 9 and 20 does not mean 29. It means somewhere between 9 and 20 degrees latitude. How more ad hoc can he be? It has been common in English to write numbers such as 23 as three and twenty. Here's a list of numbers from Shakespeare.
 |
| https://www.shakespeareswords.com/Public/LanguageCompanion/ThemesAndTopics.aspx?TopicId=26 |
Here is what Pinto wrote:
this Island of Lequios, scituated in nine and twenty degrees, is two hundred leagues in circuit, threescore in length, and thirty in bredth.
Pinto does not locate the Lequios Islands BETWEEN 9 and 20 degrees but IN 9 AND 20 degrees. 9 and 20 is 29. To say otherwise is to re-write 16th and 17th century English.
Now, let's map this out.
 |
| https://i.sstatic.net/BqQTO.jpg |
According to Tim Pinto is saying he was somewhere between the Central Visayas and the middle of the ocean just above Luzon. How likely is it for a seasoned mariner such as Pinto to not know his location? How likely is it for such a man to be off by 11 degrees which is hundreds of miles if not more?
The issue is not did Tim accurately represent the secondary source. He did. J.G. Cheock writes that Pinto landed at 9N20.
In his journal he had the audacity to give details on Lequois, putting it in the latitude of 9N20 on a meridian similar to that of Japan. Given these directions, Lequois would be at the very heart of the Philippines. The story of his shipwreck on Lequios was deemed so outrageous that it was omitted from his book when it was first published.
Phoenicians in the Lands of Gold, pg. 11
However she is citing Rebecca Catz who does not write 9N20 but 29.
 |
| page 1,291 of epub |
“This Ryukyu island is situated at twenty-nine degrees latitude.”Excerpt From: Fernão Mendes Pinto. “The Travels of Mendes Pinto.” Apple Books.
Indeed, the name "Ryukyu" is simply the Japanese form of Liúqiú. Early modern Chinese sources also specifically called Okinawa (the largest of the Ryukyus) as "Greater Liuqiu" and Taiwan Island as the "Lesser Liuqiu".
Tim writes the following to justify Cheock's lie.
J.G. Cheock, in Phoenicians in the Land of Gold, interprets Pinto’s location as 9°20′N, based on both Pinto’s own navigational narrative and corroborating sources from Barbosa, Pigafetta, and others. Cheock does not invent a number—she interprets the location based on:
Portuguese route sequences
Relative geographic references
Common Southeast Asian coordinates (Philippine zone)
This is a scholarly interpretation consistent with:
Barbosa describing the Lequios as gold traders (Ryukyu was not)
Castanheda (1883) placing the Lequios southeast of China
Pinto’s directional travel north from Malacca (Malaysia) toward the islands, placing him toward the central Philippines, not Okinawa.
So the God Culture quoting Cheock at 9°20′ was accurate to its source, aligned with historical context, and accurate to Pinto's Primary Source, even the one used by the blogger, he can't seem to read. It was already read and affirmed upon publishing. The local author was preferred by our authors because she uncovered that truth, and deserved credit, which we continue to acknowledge. It is the only quote from Cheock used and we appreciate her work on this.
Two things to note here. First Tim says Cheock INTERPRETED Pinto's location as 9N20. That is not true. She is citing Rebecca Catz. Catz does not write 9N20 but 29 because that is what Pinto wrote. Rebecca Catz is not editing the older English translation but has written a brand new translation from the Portuguese. It is the original Portuguese text which says 29.
 |
| https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.a0005237771&seq=264&q1=lequia |
Esta ilha léquia jaz situada em vinte & nove graos
Vinte & nove graos means 29 degrees. There is no room for interpreting this as a place between 20 and 9 degrees. Here is a modern Portuguese version:
Essa ilha léquia jaz situada em vinte e nove graus
https://fundar.org.br/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/peregrinacao-vol-ii.pdf pg. 53
Cheock straight up lied. Catz's plain English does not need interpretation. 29 is not 9N20.
Second of all Tim says he cited Cheock instead of Pinto because she is a Filipina! That is madness and once more showcases his poor methods. That is NOT good research in any sense of the word. He should have cited Pinto instead. Using primary sources is very important. But Tim doesn't give a flip. He will only use sources that prop up his claims. Pinto's journal smashes Tim's claims to bits.
Tim goes on to write that 9N20, which is gibberish and not an actual map location, is justified by the rest of Pinto's journal.
This is further vetted by the rest of the data Pinto mentioned that the blogger ignores.
What Tim means is the size of the island. But it seems he hasn't read the rest of the book! Let me post it again:
First of all the story follows the healing of the King of Bungo's son. The King of Bungo was a Japanese Feudal Lord who had converted to Catholicism. Pinto then sails to a port in China.
I besought the King of Bungo to give me leave to go back, which he readily granted me, and with much acknowledgement of the curing of his Son he willed a Funce to be made ready for me, furnished with all things necessary, wherein commanded a man of quality, that was attended by twenty of the Kings ser∣vants, with whom I departed one Saturday morning from the City of Fucheo, and the Friday following about Sun-set I arrived at Tanixumaa, where I found my two Comrades, who received me with much joy. Here we continued fifteen days longer, till such time as the Junck was quite ready, and then we set Sail for Liampoo, which is a Sea-port of the Kingdom of China, whereof I have spoken at large heretofore, and where at that time the Portugals tra∣ded. Having continued our voyage with a prosperous wind, it pleased God that we arrived safe at our desired Port, where it is not to be believed how much we were welcome by the Inhabitants of the place.
Liampoo is also known as Ningbo and is translated as Ning-po by Rebecca Catz. Pinto leaves Ningbo, China, and is promptly overcome by a storm and shipwrecked. He was absolutely not going north through the Malay Archipelago as Cheock and Timothy Jay Schwab claim. He was headed east out of the Chinese port with the intent of going south.
Thus by the means of this unreasonable desire of gain nine Juncks, which were then in the Port, were in fifteen days ready to set Sail, though to say the truth they were all in such disorder, and so unprovided, that some amongst them had no other Pilots then the Masters themselves, who had but little understanding in Navigation. In this bad order they departed all in company together one Sunday morning, not withstanding that they had the wind, the season, the sea, and all things else contrary, not suffer∣ing themselves to be guided by reason, or the consideration of the dangers which they are subject unto that commit themselves to this Element; For they were so obstinate and so blinded as they would not represent any inconvenience to themselves, and I my self was so infortunate, that I went along with them in one of their Vessels. In this manner they sailed all that same day as it were groping between the Islands and the firm Land, but about midnight there arose in the dark so mighty a Storm, accompanied with such horrible rain, that suffering themselves to be carried at the mercy of the wind, they ran upon the Sands of Gotom, whereof the nine Juncks two only, as it were by miracle, were saved, so that the other seven were lost out of which not so much as one man escaped. This loss was thought to amount unto above three hundred thousand Crowns in commodities, besides the greater, which was of six hundred persons that left their lives there, whereof there were an hundred and forty Portugals, all rich men, and of quality. As for the other two Juncks in one of the which by good hap I was, joyning in comfort together, they followed the course they had begun, until such time as they arrived at the Island of the Lequios;
Pinto, pg. 179-180
He describes the land and says the people rode on horseback. Where is there any account of Filipinos being horsemen?
Now as soon as it was day we perceived by the sight of the Island of fire, and of the Mountain of Taydacano, that the Land where we were was the great Lequio....
...until at last we were espyed by a boy that was keeping of cattel, who as soon as he had dis∣covered us, ran to the next Village, which was some quarter of a league off, for to give notice of it to the inhabitants there; who presently thereupon with the sound of Drums and Cornets assembled all their Neighbours round about them, so that within three or four hours they were a Company of about two hundred men, whereof there were fourteen on horsback.pg. 180
In her translation of this text Rebecca Catz has this note for Island of fire:
“Fire Island: Cortesão says that Fire Island appears for the first time on Lopo Homem’s map of 1554 and that it corresponds to Nakano-shima or Suwanose-shima, two islands with active volcanoes. The former is described in Webster’s Geographical Dictionary (1966) as a volcanic island 3,215 feet high, Tokara Island, in north Ryukyu Islands, Japan. Suwanose-Shima is not listed. See Cortesão, Suma Oriental, 128–29 n. 2.”
Fernão Mendes Pinto. “The Travels of Mendes Pinto," Translated by Rebecca Catz, pg. 2,323 epub
Pinto and his companions are tied up and taken to the town of Pungor. They are next taken to a town called Gundexilau and left to rot in a dungeon full of water and leeches. The next day they are brought back to Pungor and given a trial before a judge. They are accused of being pirates but they insist they are merchants. They are not believed and are left to rot in prison for two months.The king then sends a spy pretending to be a merchant to visit Pinto and his men to ask them how they ended up in Lequios. They repeat the same story and the spy reports back to the king. However a Chinese pirate arrives and testifies against Pinto and his men that they are indeed pirates who pose as merchants in order to conquer a country. The king believes the pirate and sentences Pinto and his men to death.
By providence the man set to deliver this decree and make sure it was carried out lodged with his sister who was a widow. Staying with her was the wife and children of one of the prisoners. When she heard the decree she fainted and then scratched her face so hard that it bled. News of this got around to the women who wrote a letter to the Queen demanding that as an act of charity the foreigners be released. Through a further series of events including a prophetic dream Pinto and his men are released. Following that story is a description of Lequios for the express purpose of inspiring the Portuguese to conquer the island.
In this manner we departed from Pungor the capital City of the Island of Lequios, of which I will here make a brief relation, to the end that if it shall one day please God to inspire the Portugal Nation, principally for the exaltation and increase of the Catholick faith, and next for the great benefit that may redound thereof, to undertake the Conquest of this Island, they may know where first to begin, as also the commodities of it, and the easiness of this Conquest. We must understand then that this Island of Lequios, scituated in nine and twenty degrees, is two hundred leagues in circuit, threescore in length, and thirty in bredth.
https://thegodculturephilippines.blogspot.com/2022/04/the-god-culture-lequios-and-lucoes-are.html
No part of Pinto's story describes the Philippines. Is there a city in Luzon called Pungor? No. Was there ever a King of Pungor living anywhere in the Philippines? No. Also Pinto's route during which he was shipwrecked was eastward from China with the intent of going south. That means Tim's claim that Pinto was traveling north from Malacca when he was shipwrecked in the Lequios Islands is incorrect.
Pinto’s directional travel north from Malacca (Malaysia) toward the islands, placing him toward the central Philippines, not Okinawa.
Let's not forget Tome Pires differentiated between the Lequios and the Lucoes who live in Luzon. They are not the same people group. Are we really to believe Pinto mixed them up? How about the Spanish? Did they forget Luzon and the Lequios Islands are the same?
Sixth: It is necessary, on the arrival of the said five hundred soldiers, at the said islands, to effect immediately the purpose for which they were brought—namely, to subjugate, settle, and explore both the said island of Luzon, and those regions nearest China: the Japans, the Lequios, and the island of Escauchu; this is a very important matter. It is necessary that your Majesty should send us workmen, masters to build ships and galleys, locksmiths, and blacksmiths to the number of fifty. For all of these workmen your Majesty, if he so please, could take the negro slaves whom your Majesty has on the fortifications of Habana, considering that the fortifications are finished now, and the men are no longer needed there.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044077731628&seq=304&q1=lequios
Farther north than the aforesaid islands are others, the nearest to Luzon being called Xipon [S: Japan].
A little to the east between these islands and China are the islands of Lequios. They are said to be rich; but we have been unable to learn much about them, for I have not seen any one who has been there. For this reason I conclude that they must be small, and that the people are not much given to commerce.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044077731628&seq=206&q1=lequios
Tim expects us to believe everyone long ago was stupid and only he has figured out the true location of the Lequios Islands hundreds of years later.
To say "situated in 9 and 20" means a range of latitudes rather than 29 degrees is quite a stretch and does not fit the data. It is transparently ad hoc nonsense. Thankfully at least we can peer a little more into the perverse and darkened mind of Timothy Jay Schwab to see how he is looking at his sources.
No comments:
Post a Comment